Microsoft launches new initiative to empower AI startups in India, BFSI News, ET BFSI

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New Delhi, Tech giant Microsoft on Wednesday launched a new programme Microsoft AI Innovate for nurturing and scaling startups that are leveraging Artificial Intelligence (AI). The 10-week initiative will support startups in India leveraging AI technologies, helping them scale operations, drive innovation, and build industry expertise.

Both B2B and B2C startups from various industries, including financial services, healthcare, education, agriculture, space, manufacturing and logistics, retail, and e-commerce can participate in the quarterly cohorts of this programme.

“AI is increasingly transitioning from artificial intelligence into augmented intelligence that ensures efficient, faster, more targeted experiences for everybody.

“AI has a tremendous potential to empower people and institutions to do better, understand customers more deeply, share information more quickly and enable scientific breakthroughs,” Microsoft India President Anant Maheshwari said at a virtual event.

He added that India has the third-largest AI startup ecosystem in the world.

“AI adoption can add more than USD 90 billion to the Indian economy by 2035…to maximise AI’s potential and mitigate its risks, we need to develop AI in a way that is responsible and fosters trust.

“As creators, users and advocates of technology, it is important for us to make careful choices so that technology ultimately translates into benefits and opportunities for all,” Maheshwari said.
Trust is non-negotiable and everyone is accountable for creating a responsible, trusted and ethical tech ecosystem, he noted.

Through its latest initiative, Microsoft will focus on providing tech and business opportunities to startups for improving their solutions, transforming organisations and building responsibly to make AI accessible to everyone, Maheshwari said.

The programme will also enable startups to reach out to newer customers and geographies with Microsoft’s sales and partner networks.

The selected startups in each of the cohorts will have access to industry deep-dive sessions and AI masterclasses by industry experts, mentoring by unicorn founders, skilling and certification opportunities, among other benefits.

Catering to technical and business audiences, the programme will bring together leading-edge tech know-how, global GTM (go to market) partnerships as well as engineering and research experts from Microsoft.

Qualified seed to series B startups will be provided with technical enablement benefits, including Azure benefits (in addition to free cloud credits) and product engineering support among other benefits. They will also receive support with business and sales acceleration needs such as marketplace onboarding.
Startups with enterprise-ready solutions will be provided opportunities to build their solutions alongside a dedicated team of professionals.

They will get go-to-market support as well as co-selling benefits with Microsoft’s sales team and partner ecosystem. The startups will also get access to top partner and customer events to strengthen their networking reach.



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Leading companies come together to set up Merchants Payments Alliance of India

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Leading companies using digital payments to service consumers including Facebook, Microsoft and Netflix have come together to set up the Merchants Payments Alliance of India (MPAI), which would promote digitalisation and financial literacy in the country.

“The alliance’s founding members include BookMyShow, Disney+ Hotstar, Facebook, Future Generali, Microsoft, Netflix, Spotify, Times Internet, and Zoom,” said a statement on Tuesday.

The formation of the alliance comes soon after the Reserve Bank of India’s directive on e-mandate that came into effect from October 1.

“MPAI will work towards such causes by addressing and constructively engaging with the payments regulator and industry. The alliance will enhance the value of India’s digital markets, provide public interest research and thought leadership on digital payments, and build consumer awareness,” it said, adding that the group will also become the principal resource platform for merchants and the payments ecosystem to contribute to policy conversations.

Also read: Explained: RBI’s new auto debit rules

Vivan Sharan, MPAI Secretariat, said, “The MPAI sees itself as a collective, using the operational experience of merchants, to engage on policy matters such as the e-mandate issue, which will help reduce transaction-related frictions and improve the efficiency of digital markets.”

Vishal Mehta, Strategic Partnerships and Payments, Microsoft, a member of MPAI, said, “The group’s purpose is to be a collaborator to the digital payments policy discourse and Microsoft is excited to be part of this initiative.”

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Merchants hit by revision in payment norms form an alliance, BFSI News, ET BFSI

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Hit by a revision in payment norms by the RBI, online merchants like Netflix, Facebook and Future Generali on Tuesday announced the formation of a grouping to take up common causes. The changes on e-mandates effected by the RBI from October 1 are intended to make the ecosystem more robust but with only six banks complying with the revised norms, the preparedness of the banking sector is questionable and there is bound to be value erosion in the merchant-customer relationships as the latter face inconveniences, as per an official statement from the body.

The Merchant Payments Alliance of India (MPAI), which also has other members including Disney+Hotstar, Bookmyshow, Microsoft, Spotify, Times Internet and Zoom, will work towards such causes by addressing and constructively engaging with the payments regulator and industry.

“The MPAI sees itself as a collective, using the operational experience of merchants, to engage on policy matters such as the e-mandate issue, which will help reduce transaction-related frictions and improve the efficiency of digital markets,” Vivan sharan from its secretariat, said.

The alliance will enhance the value of India’s digital markets, provide public interest research and thought leadership on digital payments, and build consumer awareness, the statement said.

The MPAI statement said it also aspires to become a resource platform for merchants and the payments ecosystem “to contribute to policy conversations involving matters that help reduce transaction-related frictions and improve digital markets’ efficiency” while ensuring data protection and fraud prevention.

“The group’s purpose is to be a collaborator to the digital payments policy discourse and Microsoft is excited to be part of this initiative,” the American tech giant’s Vishal Mehta said.

The alliance is open for memberships to merchants that use digital payments and align with the alliance’s vision in India, the statement said.



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Amazon, Microsoft swoop in on India’s $24 billion farming data trove, BFSI News, ET BFSI

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Amazon.com, Microsoft and Cisco Systems are among technology giants lining up to harness data from India’s farmers in an ambitious government-led productivity drive aimed at transforming an outmoded agricultural industry.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s administration, which is seeking to ensure food security in the world’s second-most populous nation, has signed preliminary agreements with the three U.S. titans and a slew of local businesses starting April to share farm statistics it’s been gathering since coming to power in 2014. Modi is betting the private sector can help farmers boost yields with apps and tools built from information such as crop output, soil quality and land holdings.

Jio Platforms Ltd., the venture controlled by billionaire Mukesh Ambani’s Reliance Industries Ltd., and tobacco giant ITC Ltd. are among local powerhouses that have signed up for the program, the government said this week.

With the project, Modi is seeking to usher in long-due reforms to make over a farm sector that employs almost half of the nation’s 1.3 billion people and contributes about a fifth of Asia’s third-biggest economy.

The government is counting on the project’s success to boost rural incomes, cut imports, reduce some of the world’s worst food wastages with better infrastructure, and eventually compete with exporters such as Brazil, the U.S. and the European Union.

For global firms, it’s a stab at India’s agritech industry, which Ernst & Young estimates to have the potential to reach about $24 billion in revenue by 2025, with the current penetration being only 1%. It’s also a chance to deploy networks, artificial intelligence and machine learning in a developing country, while for e-commerce firms such as Amazon and Reliance, securing a steady stream of farm produce could help crack a groceries market that accounts for more than half of the $1 trillion in annual retail spending by Indians.

“This is a high impact industry and private players are sensing the opportunity and want to be a large part of it,” said Ankur Pahwa, a partner at consultancy EY India. “India has a very high amount of food wastage because of lack of technology and infrastructure. So there’s a huge upside to the program.”

The idea is simple: Seed all the information such as crop pattern, soil health, insurance, credit, and weather patterns into a single database and then analyze it through AI and data analytics. Then the goal is to develop personalized services for a sector replete with challenges such as peaking yields, water stress, degrading soil and lack of infrastructure including temperature-controlled warehouses and refrigerated trucks.

Under the agreement, the big tech companies help the government in developing proof of concepts to offer tech solutions for farm-to-fork services, which farmers will be able to access at their doorstep. If beneficial, firms would be able to sell the final product to the government and also directly to growers and the solutions would be scaled up at the national level.

So far, the government has seeded publicly available data for more than 50 million farmers of the 120 million identified land-holding growers. Some of the local companies that have signed up include Star Agribazaar Technology, ESRI India Technologies, yoga guru Baba Ramdev’s Patanjali Organic Research Institute and Ninjacart.

But success is far from guaranteed. The plan to rope in big corporations is already drawing fire from critics, who say the move is yet another attempt by the government to give the private sector a greater sway, a development that could hurt small and vulnerable farmers.

The program may even add fuel to the protracted protests Modi’s government has been struggling to tackle for more than nine months after controversial new agricultural laws riled up some farmers. With crucial state elections due in 2022, it may get tougher to sell the technology-to-help-agriculture plan to a farming community already suspicious of the government’s intentions.

“With this data they will know where the produce wasn’t good, and will buy cheap from farmers there and sell it at exorbitant prices elsewhere,” said Sukhwinder Singh Sabhra, a farmer from the northern state of Punjab, who has been protesting since November against the new farm laws. “More than the farmers it is the consumers who will suffer.”

Technology adoption is still at a nascent stage in India, said Apeksha Kaushik, principal analyst at Gartner. “Limited availability of technology infrastructure and recurring natural phenomena like floods, droughts have also worked against the deployment of digital solutions,” she said.

Anxiety over data privacy could be another challenge. Abhimanyu Kohar, a 27-year-old farmers’ leader, who has been supporting the protesting farmers, said it’s a “serious issue.” “We all know the record of the government in keeping the data safe,” he said.

Despite the hurdles, a few one-year pro bono pilot programs are already underway.

Microsoft has selected 100 villages to deploy AI and machine learning and build a platform. Amazon, which has already started offering real-time advice and information to farmers through a mobile app, is offering cloud services to solution providers. Representatives at the India offices of Microsoft and Amazon didn’t respond to emails seeking comment.

Star Agribazaar, whose co-founder Amit Mundawala calls the project a “game changer,” will collect data on agri land profiling, crop estimation, soil degradation and weather patterns. ESRI India is using geographic information system to generate data and create applications, according to Managing Director Agendra Kumar.

“Once you have the data, you can correlate with on-ground reality and improve your projections, take informed decisions and see which regions need policy intervention,” said P.K. Joshi, former director for South Asia at Washington-based International Food Policy Research Institute.

A similar data-driven system implemented in the southern state of Karnataka last year helped increase efficiency in delivery of government benefits, said Rajeev Chawla, the state’s additional chief secretary. Some bank loans have even been made to farmers using the centralized data, and all government programs, verification for insurance and loans and minimum support price are being routed through the mechanism, plugging leakages and eliminating frauds, he said.

Besides the tech giants, many smaller companies and startups are likely to join the program. When completed the project will form the core of a national digital agriculture ecosystem to help farmers realize better profitability with access to right information at the right time, and to facilitate better planning and execution of policies, according to the government’s consultation paper on digital agriculture.

“How this exercise will translate into action or lead to higher production and farm income, that remains to be seen,” said Madan Sabnavis, chief economist at Care Ratings Ltd.



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For bank regulators across the world, tech giants are now too big to fail, BFSI News, ET BFSI

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More than a decade on from the financial crisis, regulators are spooked once again that some companies at the heart of the financial system are too big to fail. But they’re not banks.

This time it’s the tech giants including Google, Amazon and Microsoft that host a growing mass of bank, insurance and market operations on their vast cloud internet platforms that are keeping watchdogs awake at night.

Central bank sources told Reuters the speed and scale at which financial institutions are moving critical operations such as payment systems and online banking to the cloud constituted a step change in potential risks.

“We are only at the beginning of the paradigm shift, therefore we need to make sure we have a fit-for-purpose solution,” said a financial regulator from a Group of Seven country, who declined to be named.

It is the latest sign of how financial regulators are joining their data and competition counterparts in scrutinising the global clout of Big Tech more closely.

Banks and technology companies say greater use of cloud computing is a win-win as it results in faster and cheaper services that are more resilient to hackers and outages.

But regulatory sources say they fear a glitch at one cloud company could bring down key services across multiple banks and countries, leaving customers unable to make payments or access services, and undermine confidence in the financial system.

The U.S. Treasury, European Union, Bank of England and Bank of France are among those stepping up their scrutiny of cloud technology to mitigate the risks of banks relying on a small group of tech firms and companies being “locked in”, or excessively dependent, on one cloud provider.

“We’re very alert to the fact that things will fail,” said Simon McNamara, chief administrative officer at British bank NatWest. “If 10 organisations aren’t prepared and are connected into one provider that disappears, then we’ll all have a problem.”

The EU proposed in September that “critical” external services for the financial industry such as the cloud should be regulated to strengthen existing recommendations on outsourcing from the bloc’s banking authority that date back to 2017.

The Bank of England’s Financial Policy Committee (FPC) meanwhile wants greater insight into agreements between banks and cloud operators and the Bank of France told lenders last month they must have a written contract that clearly defines controls over outsourced activities.

“The FPC is of the view that additional policy measures to mitigate financial stability risks in this area are needed,” it said in July.

The European Central Bank, which regulates the biggest lenders in the euro zone, said on Wednesday that bank spending on cloud computing rose by more than 50% in 2019 from 2018.

And that’s just the start. Spending on cloud services by banks globally is forecast to more than double to $85 billion in 2025 from $32.1 billion in 2020, according to data from technology research firm IDC shared with Reuters.

An IDC survey of 50 major banks globally identified just six primary providers of cloud services: IBM, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Alibaba and Oracle.

Amazon Web Services (AWS) – the largest cloud provider according to Synergy Group – posted sales of $28.3 billion in the six months to June, up 35% on the prior year and higher than its annual revenue of $25.7 billion as recently as 2018.

While all industries have ramped up cloud spending, analysts told Reuters that financial services firms had moved faster since the pandemic after an explosion in demand for online banking and emergency lending schemes.

“Banks are still very diligent but they have gained a higher level of comfort with the model and are moving at a fairly rapid pace,” said Jason Malo, director analyst at consultants Gartner.

Regulators worry that cloud failures would cause banking systems to fall over and stop people accessing their money, but say they have little visibility over cloud providers.

Last month, the Bank of England said big tech companies could dictate terms and conditions to financial firms and were not always providing enough information for their clients to monitor risks – and that “secrecy” had to end.

There is also concern that banks may not be spreading their risk enough among cloud providers.

Google told Reuters that less than a fifth of financial firms were using multiple clouds in case one failed, according to a recent survey, although 88% of those that did not spread their risk yet planned to do so within a year.

Central bank sources said part of the solution may be some form of mechanism that offers reassurance on resilience from cloud providers to banks to mitigate the sector’s aggregate exposure to one cloud service – with the banking regulator having the overall vantage point.

“Regardless of the division of control responsibilities between the cloud service provider and the bank, the bank is ultimately responsible for the effectiveness of the control environment,” the U.S. Federal Reserve said in draft guidance issued to lenders last month.

FINRA, which regulates Wall Street brokers, published a report on Monday ahead of potential rule changes to ensure that using the cloud does not harm the market or investors.

Being able to switch cloud providers easily when needed is, however, a task that is more easily said than done and could introduce disruptions to business, the FINRA report said.

Banks and tech firms contest the suggestion that greater adoption of the cloud is making the financial system’s infrastructure inherently riskier.

Adrian Poole, director for financial services in the United Kingdom and Ireland for Google Cloud, said the cloud can be more effective in bolstering a bank’s security capabilities than by building it in-house.

British digital lender Zopa said it had moved 80% of its transactions to the cloud and was working to mitigate risks. Zopa Chief Executive Jaidev Janardana said the company was also deliberately leaning on tech firms’ expertise.

“Cloud providers invest a lot of resources in security at a scale that few individual companies could manage,” he said.

Google’s Poole said the company was open to working more closely with financial regulators.

“We may one day see regulators pulling data on demand from regulated banks with cloud-enabled application programming interfaces (APIs), instead of waiting for banks to periodically push data at them,” he said.

NatWest’s McNamara said the bank was collaborating closely with tech firms and regulators to mitigate risks, and had put alternative services in place in case things went wrong.

“The buck stops with us,” McNamara said. “We don’t put all our eggs in one basket.”

One problem, though, is that not all banks have a full understanding of the risks to resiliency that could come with a wholesale shift to the cloud, said Jost Hoppermann, principal analyst at Forrester, particularly the smaller lenders.

“Some banks do not have the necessary know-how,” he said. “They think doing this will vanish all their problems, and certainly that isn’t true.”



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Survey, BFSI News, ET BFSI

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Banks are taking steps to mitigate risks from their increasing use of external cloud computing services, a survey by Harris Poll and Google Cloud said on Thursday.

The Bank of England and the Bank of France have expressed concerns about a lack of transparency in how banks rely on a “concentrated” number of outside cloud computing providers like Google, Microsoft and Amazon which are beyond the arm of the regulators.

Regulators are worried that reliance by many banks on the same providers could create systemic risk if one of the cloud companies were to go down.

The survey of 1,300 leaders in financial services from the United States, Canada, France, Germany, Britain, Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore and Australia showed that 83% were using the cloud as part of their primary computing infrastructure.

The bulk of the companies are also considering adopting a multicloud strategy, the survey said, which would allow a bank to switch to an alternative provider if there is an outage to avoid an interruption of services for customers.

“Based on the Harris survey, it is clear that financial institutions are taking actions to solve concentration or vendor lock-in concerns with 88% of respondents not currently using a multicloud strategy considering doing so in the next 12 months,” Adrian Poole, director for financial services in Britain and Ireland for Google Cloud, said.



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Oyo aims for India IPO in 2021, BFSI News, ET BFSI

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Oyo Hotels and Homes will soon join the list of startups launching an initial public offering (IPO) in the country.

Internally, the hospitality company has set a timeline of September for filing its IPO prospectus and wants to be a public company before the calendar year ends, people aware of the development said.

Oyo has initiated talks with multiple bankers including JP Morgan, Citi and Kotak Mahindra Capital to manage its public issue, they said.

“Work has begun and some bankers have been finalised,” a person aware of the matter told ET. “They are aiming to file the draft red herring prospectus (DRHP) by September.”

Another person said, “Directionally, they are moving towards an IPO but many details are yet to be finalised, including the offer size.”

A spokesperson of Oyo declined to comment.

Oyo is seeing a revival in business in markets such as India and Europe as the number of Covid-19 cases have been falling and vaccination rate improving. Oyo told ET last month that it was seeing stronger recovery in Europe on the back of higher vaccination rates and that India would also reflect the same once more people are vaccinated, at least once.

Currently, 43% of Oyo’s revenue comes from India and Southeast Asia while 28% comes from Europe and the rest from other global markets. The company was forced to cut down its operations in markets like the US and China amid the virus outbreak. In India, it fired a chunk of its workforce as Covid-19 hit its business hard.

Its IPO plans come at a time when the Indian public market seems to be bullish on startup IPOs following Zomato’s public offer.

Paytm, PolicyBazaar, Nykaa, Mobikwik and CarTrade are in various stages of going public in India after having filed their DRHP over the last few months.

ET had last month reported that Oyo had secured a $660-million debt financing from global institutional investors to service its existing loans. Wall Street investors like Fidelity, Citadel Capital Management and Varde Partners have subscribed to Oyo’s TLB, also referred to as Term B Loan.

The hotel aggregator is also in talks with Microsoft for financing.



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RBI worried over growing clout of Amazon, Google and Facebook in financial services in India, BFSI News, ET BFSI

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As Amazons and Googles line up expansion in financial services in India, the Reserve Bank of India has expressed concerns over their presence.

Big Tech is a term used for the five most dominant information technology firms in the world —Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple and Microsoft—that have market capitalisation ranging between $1 trillion and $2 trillion, each.

“Big Techs offer a wide range of digital financial services…of several advanced and emerging market economies. While this holds the promise of supporting financial inclusion and generating lasting efficiency gains, including by encouraging the competitiveness of banks, important policy issues arise. Specifically, concerns have intensified around a level playing field with banks, operational risk, too-big-to-fail issues, challenges for antitrust rules, cybersecurity and data privacy,” RBI said in its Financial Stability Report.

Big techs present at least three unique challenges. First, they straddle many different (non-financial) lines of business with sometimes opaque overarching governance structures. Second, they have the potential to become dominant players in financial services.

Third, big techs are generally able to overcome limits to scale in financial services provision by exploiting network effects. it said. Interestingly, the RBI concern comes at a time when the government is engaged in a tussle with the companies over media rules.

For central banks and financial regulators, financial stability objectives may be best pursued by blending activity and entity-based prudential regulation of big techs. An activity-based approach is already applied in areas such as anti-money laundering [AML] /combating the financing of terrorism; an activity-based approach is the provision of cloud services, where minimising operational and in particular, cyber risk is paramount, it said. Furthermore, as the digital economy expands across borders, international coordination of rules and standards becomes more pressing, it said.

Growing Big Tech clout

Facebook, Apple, Google and Amazon are leveraging their huge user bases to push their financial services. With consumer user data at hand, these companies can use it to curate personal financial products for them. which entered Indian fintech market in 2016 with Amazon Pay, has taken several strides. It has partnered ICICI Bank to issue credit cards, become a part of the Indian government’s payment network through the Amazon Pay UPI, launched insurance services, and entered into the digital gold space.

Google has partnered Wise and Western Union to enter the $470 billion remittance market under which Google users in the US can send money in Inda.

Also Read: BigTech and Cyber are the major risks for Banks and FIs: Sopnendu Mohanty, MAS



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Bitcoin Climbs Past $50,000 After Backing From Ark’s Cathie Wood

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Bitcoin rallied back above $50,000 on Wednesday, aided by supportive comments from Ark Investment Management’s Cathie Wood.

The largest cryptocurrency advanced as much as 5.4 per cent to about $50,557 in Asian trading. The rebound follows a tough week for the token, including a drop to $45,000 yesterday that revived doubts about the durability of a breathtaking and volatile fivefold surge over the past year.

Overall investor sentiment has also been boosted by comments Tuesday from Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, who signaled the central bank is nowhere close to unwinding its easy policy. Cryptocurrencies have been buoyed by a tide of monetary and fiscal stimulus to fight the impact of the pandemic.

Also read: Indian millennials drawn to Bitcoin’s charms

Wood, the superstar head of Ark, said in a Bloomberg interview she’s “very positive on Bitcoin, very happy to see a healthy correction here.”

Bitcoin remains lower than its recent record of about $58,350, but the pullback so far has been “relatively modest,” Bespoke Investment Group wrote in a blog post.

The cryptocurrency rally is at the center of one of the hottest debates in financial markets. Believers see an emerging asset class being embraced by long-term investors, not just speculators. Critics fear Bitcoin is in a bubble that will inevitably burst.

Tesla Inc. Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk in recent tweets said Bitcoin prices “seem high,” having earlier called it a “less dumb” version of cash. Microsoft Corp. co-founder Bill Gates cautioned about how investors can be swept up in manias. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said Bitcoin is an “extremely inefficient way of conducting transactions.”

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Mark Mobius is bullish on 3 themes in India, BFSI News, ET BFSI

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Low interest rates, weak dollar to power fund flows into emerging markets, says Mark Mobius of Mobius Capital Partners

What really makes the financial market is a combination of fear, greed and FOMO and they all were tasted in 2020. What do you think will be the dominant behaviour of 2021?
Fear was definitely the big issue in 2020 and in 2021, this is going to go away because gradually people are going to realise that they cannot be afraid of Covid or any other illness. We can overcome these illnesses. A number of vaccines have been developed, a number of treatments have been developed and we should not be fearful of any of these illnesses. I am very optimistic for the New Year.

They say markets always climb the wall of worry and they always come down on ray of hope. Nine months ago, brokerages were racing to find the lowest point for the market. Now they are racing to find the highest level of the market. Don’t you think there is too much excitement? Will 2021 be a year of great return?
It would be a year of good returns. I cannot say it will be a great return as we have had a tremendous recovery. Since the beginning of last year, the markets have done very well and particularly India has done exceedingly well. We have quite a bit of money in India and I believe that Indian market will do quite well but you must remember that the economic statistics this year are going to be very good for countries all over the world because we have a situation of so called negative growth or shrinkage of economies around the world almost without exception.

When you compare 2020 to 2021, the numbers will look very very good. That will give a lot of optimism to the markets. Now the hope is that the central banks will continue to feed liquidity into the markets and I believe they will. The US Fed has already signalled that they will do that and I believe we are going to have a good market this year.

In the October to December quarter, emerging markets made a comeback and the dollar declined. Was this more of a year-end adjustment or is the trend where money is moving back to emerging markets and the decline in dollar is going to be the big trend for 2021?
That is a very important point because investors in emerging markets worry most of all about the currency. That is the question that we most frequently get, how about the currency? In some of these emerging markets, there has been an incredible appreciation against the US dollar. The Brazilian real is in double digits of growth against the US dollar and you find all over the world many of the emerging market currencies have strengthened against the US dollar.

I believe going into this year, this trend will be maintained or even increased because more and more money is looking for home outside the US because interest rates are very low in the US and in Europe and they are looking for better returns and that means emerging markets. I think the trend will continue with slackening of emerging market currencies.

What should one expect from US tech stocks for 2021 because that really is the anchor investment for the world — for ETFs, for S&P investors and even for US bluechips investors?
The US tech stocks are in such a dominant position that they will continue to do well. I am not saying they are going to rise dramatically but I think they are going to maintain the leadership and will continue to rise but the real opportunity will be outside the US in countries that are now taking advantage of the technology, particularly in the frontier markets where technology’s having an incredible impact on businesses in every direction.

The US tech stocks are in dominant positions in many areas. Take Apple. I am in Dubai. If I go to a mall, I see a line of people waiting to get into the Apple store and that gives you an idea of the tremendous dominance they have. Microsoft is in the same position but as you said, they have gone up quite a lot already and the appreciation probably will not be as dramatic as we have seen before but the emerging market tech stocks in India, in China in other parts of the world will do better and you will see better appreciation.

Do you think India is in a very formidable position and suddenly stars have aligned for India? There is a focus on China plus one policy which is bad news for China and good news for countries like India. Also given what is happening to crude prices, a lot of money may not go to Russia and even Brazil.
I believe that the performance of the Indian market is attracting more and more investors around the world. They realise that there is an incredible opportunity in India and you must remember China will continue to do well but from a bigger base. So the percentage increases will not be as impressive as in the case of India. And you must remember also that the technology that is being developed in the US, in China and now in India, is going to have a bigger impact on the Indian economy because for the first time many of these technologies are being used and disseminated throughout the Indian subcontinent. This is a very exciting development.

The last time when we spoke, you said you owned three stocks in India. Are you planning to make that four or five this year?
I would like to but we have an idea that it is important to have a few but very good stocks. We do not want to have more than 30 stocks in our portfolio and of course we must be diversified. India is the biggest now but we want to be diversified. We are looking for better opportunities all the time and that is true of the stocks in India too.

If we have to split your pie into various countries at what percentage is India now?
India now is 20% of our portfolio which is the largest allocation. It is followed by Korea, Taiwan, China. Then we have a little bit in Turkey and South Africa, Brazil. Brazil is significant at about 10%. We are pretty well diversified but India is the biggest.

What do you like within India? Can you give me a flavour of the themes and the ideas which you currently have?
You might say we are standing in front of a train that is running at high speed and with lots of cars and there are great opportunities. In our portfolio in India, we emphasise the medical area and that does not mean pharmaceutical but medical services is one area; education is another area. Third is anything related to infrastructure, manufacturing equipment used for infrastructure and home building. There is going to be continuing demand in India but we are not biased towards any particular industry. Rather we are biased towards companies that have good corporate governance, good ESG credentials. We work very closely with companies in which we have invested to improve their corporate governance. We believe that good companies, regardless of what industry they are in, are going to perform better if they improve their corporate governance.

Does that mean that you will not buy across the world anything which is non-ESG compliant, that includes perhaps thermal power projects even PSU companies?
Yes, that is a very good point. Power and general mining are non-ESG compliant but we will not be dismissing these industries out of hand. However, if we find an industry — be it a power producer or mining company — who are improving their corporate governance and ESG credentials — then we would favour that industry.

But it is true that it is difficult to find such companies. For example, in India, the largest part of the power is coal and the companies that produce that are polluting and it is very difficult for them to change unless they change the fuel or move into a different way of producing power such as wind or solar or some other type of non-polluting power generation.

Do you think emerging markets for next three years can give double digit returns?
Oh yes no question about that because you are getting economic growth that is high single digit. In the few years that will turn into double digits and the economic growth rate is reflected in the stocks that you buy.

At what point in time you would say that liquidity runs the risk of reversing? Could it be inflation, could it be global growth?
In modern monetary theory, there is a whole new thinking about money supply, inflation etc. In the book that I have just written, I have written that we are now in a situation where because of technology, we are getting better productivity and lower costs. So we are actually seeing a deflation. Central bankers are going to have to begin thinking about a completely new paradigm and if you look at the case of Japan, they have been printing, printing and printing but no inflation. I personally think it is a wonderful thing particularly for people in lower income brackets as they benefit from deflation and lower costs. It is going to be interesting to see how the central banks react to this new philosophy.

If a client walks up to you and says here is $5 million you are free to invest, give me options. I am looking for absolute returns, I can digest 15-20% volatility. How would you invest that?
Well, of course, they have those parameters. I would definitely put 70-80% in emerging market stocks, equities and the rest maybe in the US market. But I would say all of the portfolios got to be equities and not fixed income and it should be in emerging markets because if they are willing to tolerate the volatility that you see in emerging markets, then that is where you want to put the money.

Would you throw in Bitcoin and gold in that portfolio?
No, I would not put Bitcoin in the portfolio because Bitcoin is very difficult to evaluate and to put a price on. It is purely based on faith and it is quite opaque. It is difficult to know where the supply is and where the buyers are etc. I would not put any into the cryptocurrencies.

Aren’t such high levels of retail activity in the equity market classic signs of high participation and euphoria?
There is no question there. There is a gambling element that you see and of course Robinhood app is probably a good example where people can trade almost free of charge. Of course, there are hidden charges that you do not see but people have the impression they can trade freely and move from one stock to another. And yes, they treat it like a video game in many ways.

Lots of young people are piling into these stocks but you must remember that is only one part of the total market. The biggest part of the market is pension funds, ETFs and other funds that are more rational in their investment behaviour. But there is no question that individual stocks will be pushed all over the place by traders and so called gamblers using low- cost techniques to trade. That is particularly true in the US but increasingly true in emerging countries as well.

India has received lion’s share of flows which have gone to emerging markets. For the quarter gone by, the number was over $6-7 billion. Why have Indian markets seen such a large influx of flows when frankly on a headline front only incremental changes have happened and nothing big has happened?
The market is looking forward. The largest part of the money now particularly with this tech revolution taking place is looking forward. For example, a company like Tesla was losing money for many years but the stock price kept on going up. People are looking five years, 10 years in advance and with such low interest rates, the price earnings ratio becomes less relevant.

For example, if you have an interest rate of 1% the reciprocal is 100 times. You can have a PE ratio of 100 times or more and of course if you have negative rates, then the PE ratio can be anything. People are saying okay this company is losing money now but it is growing. Its sales are growing and the return on capital is good and I believe in five or 10 years it will be an incredible company so they drive the share price up. Now of course some of this ends up in disaster but a lot of it has worked out. So, you have to take a different view of how to evaluate the market because of the deflationary environment that we are in.

2020 was an absolute blowout year for Tesla. Should one look at the market cap of Tesla and get excited that it is the future of automotive and the decline of crude has started or can we ignore the price action in Tesla as more like a bubble?
It is not necessarily about the automobile industry, it is about the electric automobile industry. Electric vehicles are becoming more and more popular around the world because governments are favouring these types of vehicles. So the automotive industry will survive and thrive as they adopt the EV model.

Now that means demand for gasoline will not be as high as it was in the past. If the electric vehicle market covers the globe and that is no guarantee, there are still millions of people that will be using gasoline powered engines because either it is cheaper or because the availability of electricity is not there.

If you look at a lot of the frontier markets, electric power is very unreliable and it is not easy to plug in your car to get electricity. So I believe there will still be a demand for petroleum. And you must remember petroleum use is not only for transportation although that is the largest use. There are many other uses for petroleum — plastics and so there will still be demand. There has been quite an appreciation of various commodity prices.



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